Pseudo-Guitar Repair

[Lou Ann]

I'm calling this a pseudo repair because the project has never officially gotten to the finished stage...

I got it all put together and put the polish on and in doing so I ended up with a mess under the wires along the neck -- not sure if I didn't get all the flux off or if it was polish or what it was but it was real filmy looking so I took the wires off at the top and slightly bent them back to I could clean the neck real well without distorting the wires...

first problem: the wires seem to have stretch because they don't fit as nicely along the neck as they initially did -- they seem really loose so is there a way to stretch them tight?

second problem: the neck seems "scummy" again -- the frets were created using 3/16" foil cut in half and layed across the glass so that it went down the sides than 7/32" foil was used to foil the piece normally (I did this on an earlier version of this pattern that I just saw that I left silver and it didn't have the same results at all)

any suggestions -- part of me thinks I need to take the neck completely off which won't be easy because there is copper reinforcing all the way around it...


Lou Ann

[Anne]

Wow, a tough call Lou Ann. You mentioned maybe you'd take the neck off.  Does that mean you'd just remake it?

I think if this was my challenge before I did that I'd try to repolish the neck - take off as much as you can with a polishing cloth then take a soft toothbrush to it to remove the rest of the polish.  The polish should remove the scum.  From the pics it does look like flux residue. If that doesn't work I'd remove the foil frets and I'd replace them with a wire overlay.

And the strings - humm, I think I'd take the strings off and try to restretch them to pull out any bends - it doesn't look as though you have tight bends in them but you have curves.  I know we don't usually have to stretch our wire  but these are pretty long pieces and stretching them (same way as you'd stretch your came) will straighten them I think. And a guitar has straight strings so it won't work the way it is.

Not positive that will answer the problem but as nobody else jumped in on this I thought I'd give it a go for you. This is what I'd try to do to try and solve the problem.  It can't hurt can it - it's not saleable the way it is right?

[Lou Ann]

Wow, a tough call Lou Ann. You mentioned maybe you'd take the neck off.  Does that mean you'd just remake it?

I wouldn't actually start from scratch, I would take off one of the brown side pieces so I can get the neck out and then put it back together as a repair... everything fits together nicely so I hate to start completely over

I think if this was my challenge before I did that I'd try to repolish the neck - take off as much as you can with a polishing cloth then take a soft toothbrush to it to remove the rest of the polish.  The polish should remove the scum.  From the pics it does look like flux residue. If that doesn't work I'd remove the foil frets and I'd replace them with a wire overlay.

would you just cut the foil out? the fret foil is actually under the foil that goes around the outside of the glass; this piece has actually been polished and it was while I was buffing it out that I saw how yucky it was so I pulled the wires off and lifted them away so that I could get in good with the flux remover and the white Mr. Clean Jim suggested awhile back and at first it looked like it was going to work but letting it set because I couldn't get the wires straight has brought the scum back -- I've never had anything like this happen before and I use the same brand chemicals all the time...

And the strings - humm, I think I'd take the strings off and try to restretch them to pull out any bends - it doesn't look as though you have tight bends in them but you have curves.  I know we don't usually have to stretch our wire  but these are pretty long pieces and stretching them (same way as you'd stretch your came) will straighten them I think. And a guitar has straight strings so it won't work the way it is.

Agreed, won't work the way it is now!!! Do you think the strings will be secure enough when I put them back on if they are just soldered on, right now the lower ends are actually between the small black piece and the brown piece above it? If I have to take them completely off, I'll just use this wire later for stamens of something else and put new wire on this, I wasn't sure if I could stretch them while they are still on the guitar.

Not positive that will answer the problem but as nobody else jumped in on this I thought I'd give it a go for you. This is what I'd try to do to try and solve the problem.  It can't hurt can it - it's not saleable the way it is right?

thanks for trying and No it isn't saleable the way it is!!!

LA

[Lou Ann]

The most frustrating part of all this is I did one of these already and it came out perfect with no issues along the way so that was the only reason I agreed to do this second one

the only difference between the two is glass color and the neck on the original was left silver....

[Anne]

I do think the strings would be strong enough soldered back on Lou Ann,  it's not like someone is going to play them. But I'd be surprised if you could pull them while they're still on the guitar. I don't think I'd want to take the chance, it might put way too much pressure on the body of the piece.  And yes I think I would just cut out the foil if repolishing didn't work.  I use Kempro (actually right now I have Clarity as my supplier was out of Kempro- they both work equally well for me) and I've never had this problem. I've had the solder oxidize but never do this. If you do end up cutting out the foil it looks to me like you have lots of solder on the sides to solder the overlay to.  It's a whole lot less work than taking it apart on one side. If you do do the overlay I'd make just the tiniest bend in the wire on the edges of the neck so you can sink the wire into the solder instead of just laying it on top (although laying on top would work if you don't think there's enough room to bend the wire and solder it). And it won't be difficult to polish it with the overlay on as you can just use a toothbrush if you have to.

I've never used flux remover, I just wash my pieces in dish soap and scrub them with a kitchen brush right after I've finished soldering, then apply the Kempro Polish. I know I've read lots of things that say you have to use flux remover - I've cleaned with dish soap for 15 years now with no problems.

So, let us know what you decide to do and how it works out. Good luck with it. 

[Lou Ann]

Anne,

I use Clarity polish normally as well but I think the last bottle I opened was Kempro -- I may try using a brand new bottle of Clarity and see what happens...

I've always used flux remover because I have it but I have in a pinch when I was too lazy to go back upstairs used regular dish soap with no problem... this appears to be a flux issue but I have washed this area more than once now and it didn't really materialize until I polished so maybe the polish didn't get shaken enough or something -- I'm really befuddled by this...

I think my first course of action is going to be to put a buffing wheel on my DH's dremel and see if that doesn't help... I have to get the piece clean before I can worry about the strings and it's easier to clean it without them in the way....

thanks for all the help

LA

[PiscesGlass]

I agree with Anne, I wouldn't attempt to stretch the wire while still attached to the project.  I'd probably cut it off and stretch new wire to attach.

I always wash my projects with a combination of dish soap with a little ammonia in the water..it seems to take the patina and flux off very well.  I learned long ago that this worked just as well for me as the somewhat pricier products that are sold specifically for SG.  I also use a very well used green scrub pad, so as not to mar the glass.

I used to use Clarity polish..but found that it was an absolute witch to get off completely..I couldn't leave it on until it dried or it was impossible to polish off.  So now I use Mother's Car Wax..which I think does an exceptional job.  Particularly on the solder..it's made to remove oxidation on metal..and it polishes off beautifully and I've had zero problems with solder oxidizing even though my shop is unheated most of the time and my pieces used to oxidize up there practically overnight.  So for what that's worth.  I'd try some of these suggestions before I took off all the foil. 

But if you do have to get to that point...I'd probably replace the foil with a heavier weight wire that looks like frets..maybe 14 ga.  and I'd stretch that as much as possible to make it straight.

It' s a cute project.

Hope some of these suggestions help.  De

[Rebecca]

Lou Ann, I can't see it very well, but it looks like patina stain to me.  Usually it will come off with a lot of cleaning and waxing.  The cleaner made for ceramic smooth-topped stoves usually works on it or even scrubbing with almost dry baking soda.  Novacan makes a stain remover, but I've never tried it.

Rebecca

[Lou Ann]

thanks Rebecca,

I'm going to try that first because I really don't want to have to redo those fret bars

Lou Ann

[Graham]

Remove the strings(wire) by just melting the solder at both ends. Do your clean-up of the rest, a going over with extra fine steel wool and re-polish. Your frets should be OK, as is, when cleaned up. Then replace the strings.

When replacing the strings, cut them 1/2" longer than needed. Use absolute minimum of flux, exactly where you need it.Put a dab of solder at one end, then pull the wire tight. solder the other end while tension is still on the wire, then nip off any excess wire with cutters.

[Lou Ann]

Thanks Graham,

I never thought to cut them longer and then trim them... and I did the lower end first because the wire is actually between the glass but it makes more sense to do it both ends of the same string before moving on...

LA