Used Kilns? Will they work for glass?

[Rebecca]

Sorry to be late to the party!  I have no internet at home now, so I'm not here on Sunday.  I use a ceramic kiln with no controller.  Amber is correct about the cost of a controller, but I still am ahead because the kiln is much bigger than I could have afforded new.  I keep thinking I will buy or build a controller one day, but so far I do oaky without.  The side elements are a non-issue because the kiln is so deep.  It has two sets of elements and I use only the top ones and put the shelf low in the kiln.  So effectively, the shelf sees the heat coming from above.  I installed a pyrometer and made good notes on the temperatures and kiln settings until I have a good idea of how the kiln works.  No re-wiring, I just changed the plug (did it myself) where the stove used to be.  It was a good deal and works great for what I need.

Rebecca

[Anne]

De, when I bought my kiln I was under the impression it took regular household wiring.  When I got it home and we looked at the manual we found the electrical requirements called for Size 12 wire.  That wasn't the wire in our house (and when I bought the kiln the house was fairly new).  We had to rewire to my power outlet.  Just an fyi for you!

Uh oh..well that's something to check..this house was built in 1978...What mfg is your kiln Anne?
When I'm able to get this one..I'll check the manual for sure. Thanks!

My kiln is a Skutt Hot Start De.  Most of the manuals for these different companies can be found on line.  It might be a good way for you to find out what the kiln you might be buying requires for wiring.

[Ian]

Spot on Rebecca  I actually sometimes prefer using my ceramic kiln now that I have got to know it. Added bonus is that you can do potmelts without straining your kiln as ceramic kilns are rated to fire much higher than glass kilns Not to mention that they can be used for firing molds to bisque
Amber, its not as bad as you might think as my kilns were all manufactured here in SA and the manufacturer came  up with the idea of putting a plug on the  digital controller which gives you the ability to use the controller with different kilns by simply unplugging it from  one kiln and plugging into the one you want to use. So I have the 4 kilns but only 2 controllers. That knocks the price of 2 of the kilns down by about 800 dollars as I did'nt have to buy controllers with them

I did'nt realize the hassles you guys have with your wiring in your houses as here everything is 220Volt AC and where I live we have 3 phase in the house which makes life a lot easier so there was no problem setting up my big kiln which draws 38 Amps and is single phase. It did have to have a stove plug on it but the other three are household 3 pin plugs and can be used anywhere in the house.
Ian

[PiscesGlass]

Sorry to be late to the party!  I have no internet at home now, so I'm not here on Sunday.  I use a ceramic kiln with no controller.  Amber is correct about the cost of a controller, but I still am ahead because the kiln is much bigger than I could have afforded new.  I keep thinking I will buy or build a controller one day, but so far I do oaky without.  The side elements are a non-issue because the kiln is so deep.  It has two sets of elements and I use only the top ones and put the shelf low in the kiln.  So effectively, the shelf sees the heat coming from above.  I installed a pyrometer and made good notes on the temperatures and kiln settings until I have a good idea of how the kiln works.  No re-wiring, I just changed the plug (did it myself) where the stove used to be.  It was a good deal and works great for what I need.

Rebecca

LOL..nope you're never too late to this party Rebecca!  Glad to have your input in all of this.  You're statement that the ceramics kiln was much larger than what you would have been able to afford new is my dilemma exactly.  It made me curious as to whether I could use one of the large ceramic kilns and maybe become bright enough to figure out how to make it work and have a larger kiln to use..course it might not be something I'd want to use just to make small items.   Did you have to re-wire anything in order to change out your outlet?  Was the wiring rated for a 220V load?  (This may be a numb question..but I'm no electrician..other than installing new fixtures here and there..that's about as close to wiring something as I've come.)  So am I to assume that you use the cones to ramp your ceramics kiln up/down to certain temps?

Ian..yep..where I live the homes are wired for 220v but almost all of the interior outlets are 110v, I only have 2- 220v outlets in the house, one is located near the floor for the electric cooktop and one is in the basement for the dryer.  So unless you think ahead, or as apt as Rebecca is, most of us have to hire electricians to put in new 220v outlets. 

De

[Ian]

Why are the interior outlets stepped down to 110v if the houses are wired for 220 It boggles my mind.
De one thing I forgot to mention is I would'nt recommend a front opening door if you do go the ceramic kiln route. A top loader is the best for doing glass. And don't buy one second hand if the elements are starting to bulge out of their grooves. What would it cost to get a 220v line put in you
Ian

[PiscesGlass]

You know Ian...I'm not sure of the answer about the 110 vs the 220, except most of our small appliances, TV's, etc all require 110v.  Large appliances like Electric Cook Stoves, and clothes dryers all require the higher voltage...lol..it probably has something to do with stupid American's that would cook themselves with 220v..so someone came up with the bright idea of saving us from ourselves..just kidding.  I really have no idea.  I'll have to research that one.

I will remember your advice..the two ceramic kilns I saw advertised were both top loaders.  Well as far as putting in a 220v line..probably not much, hire licensed electrician (Hourly rate..?) , run electrical wire and install an outlet..preferrably in the garage, where there's a cement floor.

De

[JoanFrances]

Sorry to be late to the party!  I have no internet at home now, so I'm not here on Sunday.  I use a ceramic kiln with no controller.  Amber is correct about the cost of a controller, but I still am ahead because the kiln is much bigger than I could have afforded new.  I keep thinking I will buy or build a controller one day, but so far I do oaky without.  The side elements are a non-issue because the kiln is so deep.  It has two sets of elements and I use only the top ones and put the shelf low in the kiln.  So effectively, the shelf sees the heat coming from above.  I installed a pyrometer and made good notes on the temperatures and kiln settings until I have a good idea of how the kiln works.  No re-wiring, I just changed the plug (did it myself) where the stove used to be.  It was a good deal and works great for what I need.

Rebecca

LOL..nope you're never too late to this party Rebecca!  Glad to have your input in all of this.  You're statement that the ceramics kiln was much larger than what you would have been able to afford new is my dilemma exactly.  It made me curious as to whether I could use one of the large ceramic kilns and maybe become bright enough to figure out how to make it work and have a larger kiln to use..course it might not be something I'd want to use just to make small items.   Did you have to re-wire anything in order to change out your outlet?  Was the wiring rated for a 220V load?  (This may be a numb question..but I'm no electrician..other than installing new fixtures here and there..that's about as close to wiring something as I've come.)  So am I to assume that you use the cones to ramp your ceramics kiln up/down to certain temps?

Ian..yep..where I live the homes are wired for 220v but almost all of the interior outlets are 110v, I only have 2- 220v outlets in the house, one is located near the floor for the electric cooktop and one is in the basement for the dryer.  So unless you think ahead, or as apt as Rebecca is, most of us have to hire electricians to put in new 220v outlets. 

De

De, no the cone does not ramp up or down.  On my kiln I had to ramp it in 2 or 3 different settings.  Once that was done, the kiln was then left to do it's thing.  The cone melts when the kiln gets to the preset temp that the cone will allow, (cones have numbers like 4, 6, 8 and that dictates the number of hours the kiln will run to achieve the needed temp) when it melts (so to speak), it bends in the middle causing the cone sitter to trip the on, off control and it shuts the kiln off.  The temp then begins to decrease over several hours.  When I did ceramics I would fire at supper time and in the morning the contents in the kiln would still be warm. 

[Amber]

De, when I bought my kiln I was under the impression it took regular household wiring.  When I got it home and we looked at the manual we found the electrical requirements called for Size 12 wire.  That wasn't the wire in our house (and when I bought the kiln the house was fairly new).  We had to rewire to my power outlet.  Just an fyi for you!

Well you had me wondering with this one Anne so I checked my manual and saw the wire size was a 12 too, then I scooted outdoors when I saw my builder, (for lack of a better term, this house was built by him but I'm the 3rd owner after seven years),  across the street. He actually owned all the land on my little court and he builds all the houses one by one, needless to say his house is the biggest on the block *LOL.

Anyways, I asked him what size wire he uses and he sent me his one of his current electricians, who also just moved in across the street *L, and found the woring wasn't big enough and he said I'm lucky I haven't had trouble with tripping yet. The guy just left and he's going to help me out and him and the hubby will be re-doing the wiring for that spot in the next couple weeks.

If you hadn't said anything then I never would have thought to check, and god forbid anything happened with the kiln and house, my insurance would have had an issue even if it wasn't because of the wire!!

[Lynn]

I had to go search to find out why the US is different than most of the world.  At least according to The Straight Dope, here it is:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1033/how-come-the-u-s-uses-120-volt-electricity-not-240-like-the-rest-of-the-world

[Rebecca]

I don't use the kiln sitter for firing.  I DO have a cone in the sitter that will melt if the temperature gets too high and turn the kiln off.  It is just a failsafe device in case I forget to turn the kiln off.  The wiring for the stove had the correct amperage fuse and wiring, so all I had to do was switch out the receptacle to match the plug of the kiln.  The ceramic kiln cools more slowly than my smaller glass kiln, too.

I also have a smaller Evenheat glass kiln with no controller.  I bought it used, too.  The people who had it had NO CLUE!  They bought it to slump bottles to sell at craft shows.  They were so clueless that the first time they put bottles in it, they didn't use any kiln wash.  The bottles stuck to the shelf and they decided that there was something wrong with the kiln.  They said that was the only time they fired it.  I bought it and they included an unopened box of kiln wash that apparently came with the kiln!  Strange!

Rebecca

[Anne]

Glad I posted that info then Amber, it would have been horrible to have encountered insurance hastles down the road.  Most of the houses in our area have #10 wire - first I'd ever heard of it too! Had I realized that we'd have to rewire anyway I'd probably have bought a bigger kiln in the first place, but I did the 110 one thinking I was saving money.  In the long run I've saved nothing because I'm finding my kiln small and while I'd love to be making some bigger things I can't.  Very frustrating but I can't justify buying another kiln.  That's why I'm always telling those of you that are looking to putchase a kiln to go as big as you possibly can, you'll be glad you did in the end.

[ct4mom]

Wiring can be an issue and that is why we had a separate breaker installed along with the new wiring sand the plug. The materials are not that costly and if you know someone that knows electrical it is not that hard a job. My son did mine and even put the new wire in a plastic sleeve and mounted it to the wall so didnt have to poke holes into the walls. Having its own breaker I dont have to worry about other things on the same line.

[Anne]

Wiring can be an issue and that is why we had a separate breaker installed along with the new wiring sand the plug. The materials are not that costly and if you know someone that knows electrical it is not that hard a job. My son did mine and even put the new wire in a plastic sleeve and mounted it to the wall so didnt have to poke holes into the walls. Having its own breaker I dont have to worry about other things on the same line.

However, if you are running a business from your home and have a business insurance component in your insurance policy you'd want to ensure that you do have written confirmation that your wiring was done to code and certified by a journeyman electrician.  Our insurance company asked for it -I"m not sure if it wasn't the agent just covering all her bases but it obviously could be an issue if you ever have a claim!  Best to be safe rather than sorry!

[PiscesGlass]

I had to go search to find out why the US is different than most of the world.  At least according to The Straight Dope, here it is:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1033/how-come-the-u-s-uses-120-volt-electricity-not-240-like-the-rest-of-the-world

LOL..Thanks for getting to this research Lynn, interesting reading!  Now we know! 

De

[Lynn]

I had to go search to find out why the US is different than most of the world.  At least according to The Straight Dope, here it is:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1033/how-come-the-u-s-uses-120-volt-electricity-not-240-like-the-rest-of-the-world

LOL..Thanks for getting to this research Lynn, interesting reading!  Now we know! 

De

I may be an utter and complete geek, but I just had to know.  :>

[Glassic]

No Lynn, I'm no geek but know, I just borrowed a step up transformer so I can use my surger and a couple of other Aussie things. The different cycles are OK as they don't get continuous use.

[crazyone]

FYI actual wire numbers are confusing. the bigger the number the smaller the wire. So a 10 gauge wire is actually better than a 12 gauge wire. at least in the US.

[Stephen Richard]

............


De, no the cone does not ramp up or down.  On my kiln I had to ramp it in 2 or 3 different settings.  Once that was done, the kiln was then left to do it's thing.  The cone melts when the kiln gets to the preset temp that the cone will allow, (cones have numbers like 4, 6, 8 and that dictates the number of hours the kiln will run to achieve the needed temp) when it melts (so to speak), it bends in the middle causing the cone sitter to trip the on, off control and it shuts the kiln off.  The temp then begins to decrease over several hours.  When I did ceramics I would fire at supper time and in the morning the contents in the kiln would still be warm. 

Just a little correction.  The cones do not determine the time the kiln fires, they determine the amount of heat work done by the kiln.  As explained earlier, they then bend and allow the kiln to switch off.
This table gives some temperature equivalents:
http://glasstips.blogspot.com/search?q=cones
As you will see, the firing rate affects the temperature rating.  This shows that it it the amount of heat work that is being measured by these cones.
Steve