Artisans Of Glass
May 23, 2012, 06:12:21 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Fusing Schedule  (Read 648 times)
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
Theresa
Full Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 99


« on: April 14, 2010, 12:41:26 AM »
ReplyReply

I fused two layers 12" diameter. I then tacked fused a piece on top approx 4" x6", 1 layer thick. All was fine after the tack fuse. I then slumped the piece in a shallow platter mold, when I opened the kiln I had a crack in the plate, running under the tacked piece only. I peeked in the kiln during the last few minutes in the slumping phase and there was no crack then. My schedule for the slumping was 200ph to 1000 hold 20min, 300ph to 1150 hold 15 min, 400 to 1250 hold 20min., afap 950 hold 60min, 150ph to 750 hold 15min then off.

What did I do wrong?

Should I not go AFAP to 950 but slow it down when multiple thickness in involved?

Sorry, cannot provide pictures, I dropped the piece in the sink while washing it off. Thanks!
Logged
Judy K
Guest
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2010, 02:01:00 AM »
ReplyReply

Oh Teresa, That piece was jinxed!

I don't see anything wrong with your slump schedule. Maybe it was not annealed well for the 3 layers in the tack fuse. The fact that the crack healed by the end makes me wonder if it was a crack, or just some wierd thing the glass was doing during the slump. STOP PEAKING!  grin

sorry you dropped it!  Big Flowers
Logged
Becki
Moderator
Super Member
*
Online Online

Posts: 1769


Be yourself. Everyone else is taken.


« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2010, 07:06:26 AM »
ReplyReply

Peeking is fine as long as it's done above 1000F when there's no risk of thermal shock. My best guess, not knowing your other schedules, is that you didn't anneal enough for the tack fuse.  Tack fusing can be tricky...since the tack fused elements are not completely incorporated into the base glass they are basically a separate entity and may require an anneal 2+ times the normal anneal for the thickness. Yes, it does make the schedule longer but if it's worth doing it's worth waiting for!
Logged
Theresa
Full Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 99


« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2010, 08:21:54 AM »
ReplyReply

After I dropped it I quit working for the day. I was done, lol

Becki, you mean the stress from the tacking fuse, showed up in the slumping phase?

The crack developed after the slumping, don't know when, being a good girl I did not peek during the annealing or cooling down, afraid it would crack.

I forgot to mention in my first post that it cracked my mold too.
Logged
Kev
AOG Founder
Administrator
Excalibur Member
*
Online Online

Posts: 7483



WWW
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2010, 08:24:34 AM »
ReplyReply

Was it all the same Coe glass?
Logged
Becki
Moderator
Super Member
*
Online Online

Posts: 1769


Be yourself. Everyone else is taken.


« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2010, 08:27:36 AM »
ReplyReply

Stress is stress.  If there was stress from not properly annealing the tack fuse it can show up any time...yes, even during the slump or after.
Logged
Theresa
Full Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 99


« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2010, 08:31:49 AM »
ReplyReply

Was it all the same Coe glass?

Yes, I just got a shipment of 96 and I remember peeling off the tested compatible stickers.
Logged
Theresa
Full Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 99


« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2010, 08:41:53 AM »
ReplyReply

Stress is stress.  If there was stress from not properly annealing the tack fuse it can show up any time...yes, even during the slump or after.

I guess I'm not getting it. I thought once I took this piece in the slumping phase, into the higher temps, any screw ups would belong to that schedule.

I know stress can cause a piece to crack after the fact. I had that happen to me with one of my first pieces. When I looked at my notes, I thought no wonder, my annealing for the size was way too short.
Logged
Becki
Moderator
Super Member
*
Online Online

Posts: 1769


Be yourself. Everyone else is taken.


« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2010, 08:46:33 AM »
ReplyReply

Every time you fire glass it introduces stress.  If it wasn't properly annealed during the tack fuse that can cause problems during the slump...especially since your slump anneal wasn't allowing for the tack fused elements.  So I guess you can say it was both schedules!
Logged
Kev
AOG Founder
Administrator
Excalibur Member
*
Online Online

Posts: 7483



WWW
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2010, 08:55:10 AM »
ReplyReply

This is a good learning thread!
Logged
Kev
AOG Founder
Administrator
Excalibur Member
*
Online Online

Posts: 7483



WWW
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2010, 08:57:51 AM »
ReplyReply

So..taking that into account...how would the schedule for this type of project look with the tack fused  piece on top of 1/4" of base glass as opposed to a 1/4" base glass piece with no tack fused element added? How would the segment be changed to allow for the 1/8" extra glass and taking into account it's a tack fuse.
Logged
Judy K
Guest
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2010, 12:24:42 PM »
ReplyReply

Anneal for your highest amount of glass. In this case 3/8" , then because it is several layers there is added stress between the volume amounts, or elevations, as they heat and cool at different rates, so slow your temp changes and add some time for that to resolve. I am not sure we are right here, but I think we are on the right track. I don't understand why it was cracked after the slump but not after the cool down. I don't know why the mold broke. Am wondering if the glass was ever cracked but maybe you saw the crack in the mold.

Was there a crack scar in the glass on the bottom?
Logged
Ian
Moderator
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 226



« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2010, 01:36:38 PM »
ReplyReply

Judy
Maybe I'm reading it wrong but I think that Theresa meant that at the top of the slump temp she peeked and there was no crack but when the schedule was finished and she opened the kiln then there was a crack. Is this right Theresa.
Can you remember if the edges of the crack were sharp or rounded? If they were sharp edges then the crack happened during the annealing cycle or shortly afterwards.
Regards
Ian
Logged
Ian
Moderator
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 226



« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2010, 01:54:09 PM »
ReplyReply

Okay after converting the schedule to celsius I woul have had a hold of 2 and a half hours at the 950 point and then 1 hour at the 750 point.
The problem is that not only do you have to contend with a tack fused element but also the area around the tack fuse cools down quicker then then the 3 layer area . I dont understand why the mold cracked unless the glass somehow grabbed during the cooling of the annealing cycle. What shape was the mold
Ian
Logged
Theresa
Full Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 99


« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2010, 06:00:26 PM »
ReplyReply

Judy
Maybe I'm reading it wrong but I think that Theresa meant that at the top of the slump temp she peeked and there was no crack but when the schedule was finished and she opened the kiln then there was a crack. Is this right Theresa.

Yes Ian, that is correct.

Can you remember if the edges of the crack were sharp or rounded? If they were sharp edges then the crack happened during the annealing cycle or shortly afterwards. If I remember correctly it seemed sharp.
Regards
Ian

Here is a picture of the mold, with crack.


Logged
Judy K
Guest
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2010, 06:07:41 PM »
ReplyReply

Yup, I read it wrong. I don't know why a shallow mold like that broke ?????? The glass was probably bad annealing.
Logged
Stephen Richard
Star Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 268



Stephen Richard Steve43R
WWW
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2010, 01:22:23 AM »
ReplyReply

I fused two layers 12" diameter. I then tacked fused a piece on top approx 4" x6", 1 layer thick. All was fine after the tack fuse. I then slumped the piece in a shallow platter mold, when I opened the kiln I had a crack in the plate, running under the tacked piece only. I peeked in the kiln during the last few minutes in the slumping phase and there was no crack then. My schedule for the slumping was 200ph to 1000 hold 20min, 300ph to 1150 hold 15 min, 400 to 1250 hold 20min., afap 950 hold 60min, 150ph to 750 hold 15min then off.
.....

Just killed a long post - I will try to recreate it.
I have to assume the annealing of the initial and the tack fused piece was the same as listed here.  My comments are made on this assumption.
First the general.
Tack fused pieces are much more difficult than full or profile fused pieces.  The tack fused piece makes the thickness of the piece uneven.  All published schedules assume the piece is of uniform thickness.
The tack fused piece is only barely attached, and so to some extent acts independendently from the main base, so requiring more annealing care. 
The tack fused piece(s) shade the heat from the main piece, so inducing stress. The shape of the tack fused piece has a significant effect on the stresses.  The easiest is circular, the most difficult is pointed.

Second the specific.
Your piece's maximum thickness is 9mm, but annealing for that would be inadequate as it is not a uniform thickness.  One general solution for full and profile fusing is to go up one thickness - in this case go to annealing for 12mm.
However this is a tack fuse.  A person who has considerable experience suggests that with a circular tack fused piece, you need to double the thickness to calculate the annealing schedule.  BUT you have a rectangular piece, so her suggestion is that you anneal for something FOUR times the thickness of your piece - in this case 36mm.
As an indication of what this means, you would need to soak at annealing temperature for 6 hours, followed by the annealing cool of 12F/hour for the first 100F, then 22F for the next 100F and finally 72F/hr to room temperature.
This would need to be done on both the tack fusing and the slumping stages.  You also need to think about the rate of increase to the working temperture.

Finally, the annealing soak is to ensure the glass is an even temperature throughout its thickness.  The annealing requires a regular, slow cooling.  The soak at 750F does nothing useful, and in some circumstances could induce some stress.  Do not soak for long periods below the annealing soak.  Instead slow down the annealing cool.  For example, if you cool at 50F/hr to 750 and soak for an hour, you can change that to cooling at 40F/hr and achieve the same object, but more safely.  They both total 5 hours.
Logged
Ian
Moderator
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 226



« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2010, 09:06:23 AM »
ReplyReply

Stephen
Thank you You have solved a problem for me and now I'm going to try a multiple layer project again. I had given up on it, but finding out that the shape of the tacked on piece changes the annealing so much is a revelation and now I know what went wrong last time I tried
Thanks
Ian
Logged
Kev
AOG Founder
Administrator
Excalibur Member
*
Online Online

Posts: 7483



WWW
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2010, 09:10:36 AM »
ReplyReply

Interesting!!!!!!!!! Thanks Stephen.
Logged
Judy K
Guest
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2010, 02:09:06 PM »
ReplyReply

  Stephen!
Logged
ct4mom
Administrator
Excalibur Member
*
Online Online

Posts: 3428



« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2010, 02:37:02 PM »
ReplyReply

  Stephen It helps newbies like myself understand, this is a great learning thread.
Logged
Kev
AOG Founder
Administrator
Excalibur Member
*
Online Online

Posts: 7483



WWW
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2010, 03:22:18 PM »
ReplyReply

It sure is! I love this kind of discussion.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.16 :: SMF hosting by SiteGround :: :: SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.087 seconds with 22 queries.